Curse

Lyphen · Jun 12, 2009, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Yikes. They're very sorry they can't talk about things, but it seems like they never try. Then say they didn't promise updates, but they did. What's going on here?

Ec]-[oMaN · Jun 12, 2009, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kendel

Whatever. That doesn't explain why there's been absolutely 0 information regarding the delay on this skill update and the tourny points BEFORE they were due.

Things don't get RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing delayed by a week 5 minutes before an update. You almost certainly knew it wasn't gonna be on time DAYS before, possibly even WEEKS. There'd be alot less people annoyed about it if you gave enough of a damn to tell us it may be set back days before, not an hour after everyone expected it to be out.

In either case, they can man up before and take the flack beforehand, or not say anything and take it when certain things haven't been released. Does it really matter or change the fact stuff is delayed? Won't make it come sooner. A better cause for concern would be to ask the question "why" if they are expanding the Live team for GW1. Furthermore with the increase in delays why has quality still not improved? Talking skill changes here.

Sai Rith · Jun 12, 2009, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Why would we need a skill update when Guild Wars is already balanced!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????

Lol. No but srsly, just wait....

Kendel · Jun 12, 2009, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

Please speak for only yourself, unless you go by the name "Playerbase".
The vast GW community is not on Guru, who make up only a percentage of GW. If those are your opinions all well and good that is your right, but don't imply you speak for all.

Indeed. They just get sick of Anet delaying everything and go somewhere devs actually deliver, or at least are honest enough to say something might be delayed. Hell Valve are experts at delaying things but at least they tell you!

Inde · Jun 12, 2009, 08:42 PM // 20:42

While I really feel for the CM's right now, I do hope that all of us can keep in mind that you don't usually get angry about something you don't care about. Even if there are some rage posts (which we are honestly trying to keep the worst of them that are nothing but name calling or flamebait out) the fact that the community posts and expresses their displeasure or how upset they are ultimately means that they still love this game. Whether it's just nostalgia as a veteran or a newbie trying to learn the ropes.

If you can keep your feedback constructive, even if you are a bit mad, it serves as a benefit. I'm sure that the CM's are just as frustrated that they can't resolve this. That they can't tell us the information. A CM has no better pleasure then to keep their community happy and informed. If they aren't able to do that for various reasons its hard to want to come on and post anything, knowing how the community is going to justifiably react.

Try to show some patience.

Kawil · Jun 12, 2009, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

All I can say is 'auch'.

With posts like these it's better not to post on Guru at all, Regina. Come on, a Community Manager that doesn't even know what your company has told to its playerbase? I don't mean this as a personal attack, it just underlines the gap between Anet and the playerbase that I feel at times.

Sure, a major update like April's gets me all excited again, but moreso because we got the promise of another likewise big update in 3-4 months.

This playerbase is craving for any new content/information/update. Don't go pulling that carrot away all of a sudden, leaving only a black hole, sucking in all of our enjoyment.

Agree completely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by super strokey

Calm down guys, lets wait and see what comes up before freaking out. If anet stopped supporting the game 100% it wouldnt be like we all didnt get all our money x100 out of the game. If you seriously dislike teh game now, as many of you seem to, then just move along to another game,

You're missing the point. Yes, peeps do QQ a lot but at the same time it would be nice to simply have A-Net come out and say, "We don't have any content updates going live this month" and then direct us to the content update page saying 3 or 4 months. Especially if it seems as though the community is expecting one. A little more communication (and the right kind) is what is needed here I believe.

Kendel · Jun 12, 2009, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

Try to show some patience.

Patience has limits. It doesn't suddenly return to 100% the moment it gets released because then they do it again the next month and expect more patience. Then they finally do it and the next month, late again with no explanation until 2 hours after it was due. And the explanation is never even worth reading because its the typical "i'm not really actually answering the question" evasive crap that Gaile always said.

Something tells me the fact that they DID release and update it just contained in it, NOTHING that people wanted is part of the problem. Orb no longer ressing NPCs in AB? Wtf? People saw that as a *strategy*. Is this suddenly a high priority change?

Bacon Was A Monk · Jun 12, 2009, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

Please speak for only yourself, unless you go by the name "Playerbase".
The vast GW community is not on Guru, who make up only a percentage of GW. If those are your opinions all well and good that is your right, but don't imply you speak for all.

I think that represented the playerbase pretty accurately. I was actually getting back into HA a while ago, until I got bored going against the exact same sins builds who weren't fixed in a previous update. Then the last recent skill balance came, and nothing was even touched relating to HA. So I quit playing again.

So what have I learned about GW?
1. Their community people like Gaile and Regina fail at their job.
2. A.net doesn't care about its playerbase.
3. This same shit will probably happen in GW2.

30K OK WASSUP

Lonesamurai · Jun 12, 2009, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

While I really feel for the CM's right now, I do hope that all of us can keep in mind that you don't usually get angry about something you don't care about. Even if there are some rage posts (which we are honestly trying to keep the worst of them that are nothing but name calling or flamebait out) the fact that the community posts and expresses their displeasure or how upset they are ultimately means that they still love this game. Whether it's just nostalgia as a veteran or a newbie trying to learn the ropes.

If you can keep your feedback constructive, even if you are a bit mad, it serves as a benefit. I'm sure that the CM's are just as frustrated that they can't resolve this. That they can't tell us the information. A CM has no better pleasure then to keep their community happy and informed. If they aren't able to do that for various reasons its hard to want to come on and post anything, knowing how the community is going to justifiably react.

Try to show some patience.

good post inde, thank you for posting that...

although I think some of the posts have become a lil stronger than should be ok on here... the venom levels are starting to spike

Martin Kerstein · Jun 12, 2009, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Bottom line is:
Unless Linsey and her team has nailed down all the details of what she will include in the content update, there is nothing we can talk about. It has already been said that we would like to add "PvP love".

We are watching the forums. We were aware that you expect a balance - as it turned out, we were not able to pull it off this week. Things change in game development. So there you have the reason why we did not talk about it - it might have happened, but it didn't.

Let me put one thing straight: Guru is not The Community. Guru is one aspect of the whole Guild Wars Community. Guild Wars Community exists in many different places, many of them not forums, and is a diverse entity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

6. When you do listen to us, like the hairstylists, you do it in a wrong way, such as not having an option to get one via ingame means.
7. Likewise your content updates, if they can be called that, are little more than window dressing and are hardly substantial.

Again: Because you personally do not like it or the way it is done (and yes, by gathering feedback in many places we are aware that there are people out there who do not like it) it is a mistake to assume that you speak for the community.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

If you ask me, there are no community relations right now and I don't know whose fault it is, but I don't see anyone from your company owning up to it and improving things. CR is a two way street and you guys aren't doing your job, especially with generic posts like the one I've just quoted.

Agreed, it is a two way street: We provide you with information as soon as we are able to do so, and you provide us with constructive criticism and suggestions. Last time I looked up constructive criticism, personal insults and one liners saying that something "sucks" without actually giving context or an explanation why something sucks was not part of the definition.

And even if you think that we just say this because we are supposed to say it: We really do understand that you are frustrated. We do. We are gamers as well next to our job as Community Manager. But it is sometimes simply not possible to talk about things which are work in progress because there is potential that things change or slip.

And history has proven that a simple "we are thinking about it" will be turned into "you promised", and that players then feel "betrayed" when we made changes or came up with something different.

So: Are we working on a skill update: yes.
Will it be next week: hopefully - but it depends on a couple of factors.
Are we planning to have a new content update in the 3-4 month timeframe: yes, that is the plan.

We also work on some other things which are not finalised yet, but we will probably be able to talk about it next week.

Chocobo1 · Jun 12, 2009, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein

Bottom line is:
Unless Linsey and her team has nailed down all the details of what she will include in the content update, there is nothing we can talk about. It has already been said that we would like to add "PvP love".

We are watching the forums. We were aware that you expect a balance - as it turned out, we were not able to pull it off this week. Things change in game development. So there you have the reason why we did not talk about it - it might have happened, but it didn't.

Let me put one thing straight: Guru is not The Community. Guru is one aspect of the whole Guild Wars Community. Guild Wars Community exists in many different places, many of them not forums, and is a diverse entity.

Again: Because you personally do not like it or the way it is done (and yes, by gathering feedback in many places we are aware that there are people out there who do not like it) it is a mistake to assume that you speak for the community.

Agreed, it is a two way street: We provide you with information as soon as we are able to do so, and you provide us with constructive criticism and suggestions. Last time I looked up constructive criticism, personal insults and one liners saying that something "sucks" without actually giving context or an explanation why something sucks was not part of the definition.

And even if you think that we just say this because we are supposed to say it: We really do understand that you are frustrated. We do. We are gamers as well next to our job as Community Manager. But it is sometimes simply not possible to talk about things which are work in progress because there is potential that things change or slip.

And history has proven that a simple "we are thinking about it" will be turned into "you promised", and that players then feel "betrayed" when we made changes or came up with something different.

So: Are we working on a skill update: yes.
Will it be next week: hopefully - but it depends on a couple of factors.
Are we planning to have a new content update in the 3-4 month timeframe: yes, that is the plan.

We also work on some other things which are not finalised yet, but we will probably be able to talk about it next week.

See, this is better than you saying NO TIMELINES HERE.

I don't care if you have to explain to us that a skill update got delayed, or something went wrong and someone got sick and now the content update is pushed back. It's just nice to know that there is a rough estimate for things and it actually lets us know that you are working on them. I'd much rather have delayed updates than total silence and the feeling like nothing is going on.

Kendel · Jun 12, 2009, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein

as soon as we are able to do so,

I think you might need to work on your communication skills then. Because if you only found out it was delayed for a week 2 hours after it was due to be released you've got some serious issues. Delays of a upto 24 hours happen because of unforseen things, not a week. Are your devs sat there refusing to work until Duke Nukem Forever is released or something?

Regina Buenaobra · Jun 12, 2009, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

1. The company has said updates will be every 3-4 months. Now you are acting like it's going to be a few months away from now before we get another one.
2. Anet has said it was going to be more open about updates, we haven't heard a word from you guys about anything coming up.
3. If you people were paying attention to the forums, you guys would have known that we were expecting a skill update this week. When it became obvious you weren't going to have one ready by then, you would have said so if you actually cared about the community. But keeping quiet shows that you either don't know about the community or you don't care and only say anything to run damage control. If the damage control thing is correct, and I think it is, it only goes to prove that you all don't have any respect for us and are only stringing us along until GW2 comes out in the hopes we'll shell out money again so you can repeat the process when you start making GW3.
4. If you guys knew how the community felt, you might have been a little more forthcoming about GW2 info, as most of us have seen more info on games that have been canceled than we've seen on GW2.
5. You are expecting us to buy the "we know how you feel" line again, like we were a bunch of idiots. We've heard that too often and you guys aren't acting as you would if you actually meant that.
6. When you do listen to us, like the hairstylists, you do it in a wrong way, such as not having an option to get one via ingame means.
7. Likewise your content updates, if they can be called that, are little more than window dressing and are hardly substantial.

If you ask me, there are no community relations right now and I don't know whose fault it is, but I don't see anyone from your company owning up to it and improving things. CR is a two way street and you guys aren't doing your job, especially with generic posts like the one I've just quoted.

Content updates are different from maintenance updates. Content updates happen every few months. The April content update is an example of this. Are we still planning on doing content updates in the future? Yes, unless something changes. Maintenance updates happen each month and may contain changes like skill balances, bug fixes, tonic and map rotations, etc. Will we continue to do maintenance updates? Yes, unless something changes.

We are given information that we are cleared to release to the public. We ask the questions here about what can we say to the community. We discuss this, and sometimes we then decide as a group that certain things should either messaged publicly, or not. If we can share information for you, we do.

We do know how the community feels about GW2. We have reiterated these feelings to the rest of the company. Again, any information release has to be made not only with hardcore fans' views in mind, but also in the context of wider issues that go beyond just the fans. As a company, we have to think about the business environment, the external creative environment, the media, etc. That's just the way business is. We do care about what you think, but we must also think about other issues as a company.

I know it's been hard for you all, not hearing new information about GW2. I'm sorry that this has been so hard for you all. But there are things to take into consideration as a business, and information will be released when we as a whole company feel the timing is right.

No game company will ever be able to do every single thing a player community wants because there are so many different communities, so many different things that the players want, and those wants often conflict with each other. Some of those wants can even be mutually exclusive.

This is not the only community that we get feedback from. This is just one of many places that we look for input.

Linsey's been in meetings with Izzy to discuss skill update. Can we discuss the precise scheduling or timing? No. We are aiming for next week, but you all know that in game development, things can change.

Martin and I have been doing a lot of planning and brainstorming on high level stuff that is not visible to the public, things which are not final, and which cannot at this time be shared publicly.

We want share information, but in times past when we have shared information prematurely, this has created more problems than generated goodwill, as Martin has said.

slowerpoke · Jun 12, 2009, 09:07 PM // 21:07

I dont think theres anything ANet can do to stop the increasing displeasure from the fans, other than release GW2

GW1 is stale, and those updates you take months to craft are merely distractions for a few hours before the boredem returns.

Lishy · Jun 12, 2009, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

We actually didn't say that the content updates would be quarterly. The community just assumed that they would be...

Regina, I hope that's a typo on your part and not the live team as a whole. It clearly said multiple times from many offical sources they were quarterly. Better clear it up before this thread floods

Anyways, as for your other post, I understand it is very typical for game companies to usually not release update info and there's sometimes a good reason for that.
And especially this being GWG, your primary QQ source, it could be easy to understand the stress you guys have, which would only lead to more stress if the community were to see the updates, since they complain no matter what. I'm just happy that Guild Wars is no monthly fees with all these updates still being done, though.

Now, I'm sure there must be a good reason things that needed to be fixed for so long such as the paragon's lack of usage, spawning power, dervishes not having enough exclusive features to their own weapon, as well as many other total b0rks in the game have not been fixed yet. After all, why would the live team intentionally leave the game b0rked?
This is a paid job, isn't it?
That said, if they arent able to fix it quickly, there must be some HUGE technical problems behind the scenes that makes it MUCH more complicated than it seems. So, personally, I'm going to be optimistic and appreciate the fact it is considered and hope it is being worked on.

But what I really must ask is if more communication can be done about skill updates. Not leaks of upcoming updates, but rather responses or your very own personal opinions to our suggestions to at least make the community feel like it is payed attention to. Perhaps the community would be more understanding if you guys explained the mechanics more on why update X could be a bad idea and why update Y is a good idea.
Know what I'm saying?

Chocobo1 · Jun 12, 2009, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Content updates are different from maintenance updates. Content updates happen every few months. The April content update is an example of this. Are we still planning on doing content updates in the future? Yes, unless something changes. Maintenance updates happen each month and may contain changes like skill balances, bug fixes, tonic and map rotations, etc. Will we continue to do maintenance updates? Yes, unless something changes.

We are given information that we are cleared to release to the public. We ask the questions here about what can we say to the community. We discuss this, and sometimes we then decide as a group that certain things should either messaged publicly, or not. If we can share information for you, we do.

We do know how the community feels about GW2. We have reiterated these feelings to the rest of the company. Again, any information release has to be made not only with hardcore fans' views in mind, but also in the context of wider issues that go beyond just the fans. As a company, we have to think about the business environment, the external creative environment, the media, etc. That's just the way business is. We do care about what you think, but we must also think about other issues as a company.

I know it's been hard for you all, not hearing new information about GW2. I'm sorry that this has been so hard for you all. But there are things to take into consideration as a business, and information will be released when we as a whole company feel the timing is right.

No game company will ever be able to do every single thing a player community wants because there are so many different communities, so many different things that the players want, and those wants often conflict with each other. Some of those wants can even be mutually exclusive.

This is not the only community that we get feedback from. This is just one of many places that we look for input.

Linsey's been in meetings with Izzy to discuss skill update. Can we discuss the precise scheduling or timing? No. We are aiming for next week, but you all know that in game development, things can change.

Martin and I have been doing a lot of planning and brainstorming on high level stuff that is not visible to the public, things which are not final, and which cannot at this time be shared publicly.

We want share information, but in times past when we have shared information prematurely, this has created more problems than generated goodwill, as Martin has said.

There needs to be a balance though. Yes, there is very good reasons for not sharing information, but since you know that there is indeed updates coming and you have a rough idea of when you can't put yourself in our shoes.

The only information we get is when you or another GM rarely post, or our updates each month. Posting is more of a bonus, if one of you posts some info it's generally just a nice thing, but no one expects it.

Updates on the other hand are expected, and it's the only way we feel like we are getting some attention. When it doesn't happen, and we aren't told anything about why.... obviously people jump to conclusions. You don't have to tell us the exact skills and the exact date stuff is coming out, but it's not really fair to leave us in total darkness either.

Ec]-[oMaN · Jun 12, 2009, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

But what I really must ask is if more communication can be done about skill updates. Not leaks of upcoming updates, but rather responses or your very own personal opinions to our suggestions to at least make the community feel like it is payed attention to. Perhaps the community would be more understanding if you guys explained the mechanics more on why update X could be a bad idea and why update Y is a good idea.
Know what I'm saying?

Andrew Patrick used to do this sort of thing, especially here on Guru glad arena. When he was around you felt connected, and some of the changes seemed to tie directly into the threads/skills being discussed, too bad it didn't last.

Toxic OnyX · Jun 12, 2009, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Content updates are different from maintenance updates. Content updates happen every few months. The April content update is an example of this. Are we still planning on doing content updates in the future? Yes, unless something changes. Maintenance updates happen each month and may contain changes like skill balances, bug fixes, tonic and map rotations, etc. Will we continue to do maintenance updates? Yes, unless something changes.

We are given information that we are cleared to release to the public. We ask the questions here about what can we say to the community. We discuss this, and sometimes we then decide as a group that certain things should either messaged publicly, or not. If we can share information for you, we do.

We do know how the community feels about GW2. We have reiterated these feelings to the rest of the company. Again, any information release has to be made not only with hardcore fans' views in mind, but also in the context of wider issues that go beyond just the fans. As a company, we have to think about the business environment, the external creative environment, the media, etc. That's just the way business is. We do care about what you think, but we must also think about other issues as a company.

I know it's been hard for you all, not hearing new information about GW2. I'm sorry that this has been so hard for you all. But there are things to take into consideration as a business, and information will be released when we as a whole company feel the timing is right.

No game company will ever be able to do every single thing a player community wants because there are so many different communities, so many different things that the players want, and those wants often conflict with each other. Some of those wants can even be mutually exclusive.

This is not the only community that we get feedback from. This is just one of many places that we look for input.

Linsey's been in meetings with Izzy to discuss skill update. Can we discuss the precise scheduling or timing? No. We are aiming for next week, but you all know that in game development, things can change.

Martin and I have been doing a lot of planning and brainstorming on high level stuff that is not visible to the public, things which are not final, and which cannot at this time be shared publicly.

We want share information, but in times past when we have shared information prematurely, this has created more problems than generated goodwill, as Martin has said.

Ok I read through that twice just to be sure I thought I read correctly the first time.

1. lack of information is what is losing your company a playerbase, yet your company still feels this is a good policy?

2. the constant about turns, delays, poor updates (as in buggy or poorly thought through skill changes) is another thing that is losing players faith, but lack of communication from a-net again is contributing to you losing the playerbase

3. I found your answer of HERE IS NOT THE COMMUNITY to be astoundingly arrogant and clearly shows that you wear the company hat far too often, here is the community as well as other forums, maybe that is something you should be taking into account

The honest truth is that your company's lack of understanding of it's players will cost you dear in he long run unless you make some changes to your communication policy

Martin Kerstein · Jun 12, 2009, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

But what I really must ask is if more communication can be done about skill updates. Not leaks of upcoming updates, but rather responses or your very own personal opinions to our suggestions to at least make the community feel like it is payed attention to. Perhaps the community would be more understanding if you guys explained the mechanics more on why update X could be a bad idea and why update Y is a good idea.
Know what I'm saying?

That is what the Dev Updates are for which come with each update (ok, admittedly the last one came after the update) - in those updates the Devs give the reasoning behind the changes made.

Martin Kerstein · Jun 12, 2009, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxic OnyX

3. I found your answer of HERE IS NOT THE COMMUNITY to be astoundingly arrogant and clearly shows that you wear the company hat far too often, here is the community as well as other forums, maybe that is something you should be taking into account

Actually that answer is not in Regina's statement. What was said is that this is not the only community we gather feedback from.